Chinatown in the 21st Century – Taking Roots: Asian American Immigrants and Civic Participation

Thomas Tam: Now, all of the panelists have worked in Chinatown for a very long time. Can you think back to the first time when you really got involved with Chinatown? What is it that prompted you to go to Chinatown and start working in there, in the civic affairs of Chinatown?

Kai Yin Liu: I still remember in the early 70’s when I worked for Chinatown Planning Council. Today, it’s called the Chinese American Planning Council. One day, there was this guy, Tom Tam, who came to my office and asked me to get involved in health issues. At that time, we had three goals. The first goal was to have a free health fair on Mott Street and Pell Street; the second goal was to force new Gouverneur Hospital to hire more Chinese people; and the third goal was to have our own Chinatown Health Clinic. In the beginning, some people would complain about us that having a health fair would disrupt their business. In the end, we had a successful health fair, and we forced Gouverneur Hospital to hire more Chinese personnel. Then, there was the tough job of creating our own health clinic. That was the beginning.

Thomas Tam: Your involvement certainly made a big difference. That was a time when the people involved were recognized as radicals. They’re accepted by the community, as a whole in the end. Justice Cohan, recently we read from the local media that there was quite a bit of domestic violence within the Chinese community. As a legal professional, do you have some comments about that?

Doris Ling-Cohan: In terms of domestic violence, I have a long history of working on that issue. I helped start the New York Asian Women’s Center many years ago, although I’m not part of that center now. The issue has always been in our community. For many years, it was buried. Although it existed, nobody talked about it and nobody acknowledged that it was a problem. There were no resources for people who were victims of domestic violence. There was no safe haven for women and children who were victims to go, even for a night or two, for things to calm down. Initially it was very difficult. You’re viewed as radical because you pointed out a problem. We, in the community, know firsthand that unfortunately, we do have problems. We can’t bury it. In the instance of domestic violence, what it meant was to apply for government grants, to apply to foundations, to raise money so that they could build a place for people who needed a safe place to go, and to also provide counseling to these women and their families. In terms of the reports, I don’t think that there are increasing numbers of domestic violence. It may be because we are no longer scared to address these issues; and the press, by focusing on these issues, in a way, educates our community. That’s very important.

Frank Shih: Doris is really right on this. There are a couple of other barriers that Chinese Americans have. We have the immigration issues. We have the cultural issues. When domestic violence is reported, the whole family is involved, not just the couple. And of course, there is the language issue. Finding a safe haven within all three areas is really tough, especially when reporting a crime, domestic violence, and so on. So it’s a very troubling, very thick area to deal with.

Thomas Tam: Right, we’re going into that later, because it touches upon a whole different culture, and a whole different legal system that people come from. Compared to the time when you were first involved, have there been changes, say, in the past 10 or 15, 20 years? Do you want to talk about that?

Frank Shih: I was a community worker in Project Reach right after college in ’73 or ’74. I remember being involved in the Confucius Plaza demonstration and being arrested, and how that brought members of the community together. China was not open then. There was Taiwan and all that oversea’s involvement with people in Chinatown. Chinese Americans seem to be more diverse now than 20 or 30 years ago. We speak more dialects now. The population has increased so much that we can’t say there’s just one Chinatown. We can’t even say there are three, we can say maybe more. We have different classes of population coming to the Chinese community, with this global capital influencing the Chinese community more so than ever. More of our communities are now tied to the economic system of China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Philippines and Indonesia. That’s a big change in culture.

Thomas Tam: From an enclave where people live and work, now there’s an extension of Chinatown into the mainstream economy, and on an international level as well.

We have three legal experts here. The legal system in the United States is really superb. That doesn’t mean that there are no unjust laws, however. Back in the 1800’s there was a Chinese Exclusion Act that discriminated against the Chinese. Only after it was repealed around 1943, that more Chinese and Asian are able to migrate here. The immigrants come with their own language and customs. When they are here, they are confronted with a different system. For example, the practice of Chinese restaurants displaying roast pig or roast duck on the window has been declared unsanitary. Some Chinese food vendors on the street have been fined a thousand dollars, for not wearing a food server hat.

Now, a lot of this probably is from doing things differently in Asia. From the Chinatown perspective, what can you say about that?

Kai Yin Liu: I can give you another example. Four years ago, on the day when Chung was sworn in as the President of CCBA, Mott Street, between Hester and Grand Street was mobbed by city officials. There was a deputy commissioner from the Mayor’s Office, along with a lot of officials, from the Department of Health, Department of Fire, Department of Sanitation, you name it. They gave out a lot of tickets. People argued with them, “Hey, why do you give me a ticket for my basement? I have no people in there. I just put a box on top of the cover and I sell vegetables and fruits. Why?”

The officials said, “Hey, in case there is one person underneath the cover, and there is a fire, then the person will have no place to go.” As a result, they got over 200 tickets for one day. Chinese merchants in Chinatown were really mad.

I would say that, on one hand you might argue about the difference in culture. On the other hand, they have to take American laws into consideration. They have to take those people living upstairs as well as the cars and pedestrians into consideration. They can’t run the business like they did back in their home country. No way! You mentioned earlier that this is our ancestral baggage. It is our baggage, but we have to move forward.

Doris Ling-Cohan: I think our community suffers from a lack of legal knowledge or a lack of how government works. For example, if you’re a recent immigrant who set up a business, you may not know that there are certain bookkeeping requirements, or minimum wages that that you have to pay. Perhaps, government can do a better job in terms of educating small business. Maybe, community leaders want to talk to government about publishing pamphlets that advise people as to what their obligations are. America provides an opportunity to people. As immigrants, many of us come to America for our children. When you think about it, America asks very little of the average citizen. They ask you to pay taxes; they ask you to vote; they ask you to serve in the armed forces if you’re called, and really very little else. In terms of us as a community, whether we’re immigrants or whether we’re born here, we are not necessarily viewed as Americans.

So, how do we become full participants in the American mainstream? I would argue that part of that is civic responsibility and participation. I’m a judge. A lot of people say to me, “I don’t want to serve on jury duty. Is there anything I can do to get away?” It is your obligation to serve jury duty if you’re called. That’s assuming you understand the language and you can communicate in the language. Some people say, “I don’t want to vote because maybe I’ll be on jury duty!” There are many countries where somebody picks the leader for you. We are very fortunate; we can pick someone by voting. It’s really an opportunity to exercise our specific responsibility. When you vote, people listen. It’s as simple as that.

Thomas Tam: Thank you. Now, Frank, as an educator, what can you say about the issues that were raised by Kai and Doris?

Frank Shih: A large percentage of Chinese American population are immigrants with ties to other places. They are basically transnationals; they’re no longer the immigrants of an earlier past. They maintain social and political relationships to where they came from. For example, the number of people who went back to Taiwan to vote in the past election surprised me. I agree with Doris and Kai that it lies in the area of Asian American consciousness. It takes awhile to develop a consciousness of being, an Asian American as opposed to being an Asian in America. It came out of the black consciousness movement, and it spread to the Chinese American community when many of us said to ourselves, “Wait a minute, we reflect what people think we are; the outside community thinks that we’re Chinese in America, but we’re really Chinese Americans, we’re not Chinese. No matter how hard I try to be, I would never be a Chinese. Because I was raised in America and I have the heritage, I’m Chinese American.” That Chinese American consciousness lends itself to investment culturally and socially into what we have here in this country. It’s hard to reach that stage with new immigrants. New immigrants have new immigrant issues. They have to survive, you can’t blame them for going to school to earn a successful living.

There are also cultural barriers. We go after education without planning for the skills that it would take to be a good participant in this culture. We educate ourselves to run a business, but we don’t educate ourselves to have the skills to understand the politics here, or the skills to participate here. When I see undergrads that run away from courses because they have to write a lot, because they have to give oral presentations, it’s sort of like what educators called math anxiety. A lot of new immigrants have this English anxiety. They walk into college saying “I can’t.” We reflect what people think of us. “Asians can’t read and can’t write well”. We reflect that when we believe it.

Doris Ling-Cohan: I don’t think people realize that they need the ability to communicate. Whether you work in computers or in any job, you still have to communicate with your co-workers and supervisors. The ability to communicate is very important. It’s important not to shy away from learning those skills. I used to teach Business Law at CUNY. I had many Chinese students in my course. I would say to them that this is a relatively safe environment. Nobody’s going to laugh at you if you don’t speak perfectly. So this is the place to participate and to raise your hand. We need to encourage our children to speak in class. In every class, every day, try to raise your hand one time. The first time maybe the teacher won’t be able to hear you because you’re so scared and you’re nervous. The second time, you’re going to speak louder. By the third time, you’re going to be brilliant. Hopefully, we can send that message to our children that they shouldn’t be afraid to speak.

Frank Shih: It is painful to take risks in those areas. But again, Doris is 100% right. You can’t be successful in any field without learning how to communicate orally and in written form.

Thomas Tam: Both Frank and Doris have stressed that English and communication being absolutely important. I want to pull us back to some of the issues that you, Frank and Kai have raised, that is the affinity or the conflict level that one has with one’s home country. Immigrants, Chinese immigrants especially, feel much more comfortable in their home language and culture. How does this affect their being treated as Americans here? Does it mean that their affinity to their old home would be looked upon as loyalty to their old country? Is it going to cause any kind of problems about their loyalty to America? Should their legal rights be related to their loyalty?

Doris Ling-Cohan: If we look to the study commissioned by the Committee of 100, some of the findings are very shocking, and indicate to us the work we need to do in the community, and outside the community. The finding about attitudes towards Chinese Americans and Asian Americans indicted that 43% had somewhat negative attitudes towards Chinese Americans and 25% had very negative attitudes towards Chinese Americans. That’s a total of 75% of Americans. When they were asked the question, “Do you think Chinese Americans would pass secret information to China?” 46% of those polled said that it would be a problem. Whether we were born here, or elsewhere, we are often viewed as foreigners. I’m very proud of my heritage, but I am also focused that I am an American. We all came here with the idea that our future is in America. We must first and foremost, think of ourselves as Americans, because our children’s futures depend on how we view ourselves, how we carry ourselves and how we participate in civic affairs.

That is what I was talking about before. If you’re called as a juror, you participate. It’s very important. If you have a case, you should be judged by your peers. That’s the concept of jury duty. If a Chinese American goes to court, they should have a right to have their peers, not just selected parts of New York City, look at their case. The idea of jury service is that people in the whole community gets to serve. To vote, that’s a civic participation too.

Kai Yin Liu: I felt that Chinese Americans are difficult to become fully American because of our looks, and because of our culture. I would simply say that we should study Jewish people’s model. That is to say, if we are not strong enough, let our children be educated enough so that one day we can control our future. Look at the Jewish people. After some years, a lot of them became professionals. If you go to the Wall Street area, who controls the market? Look at the mass media, The New York Times, who controls the mass media? I guess one day, if our children will be strong enough, gradually Americans will say, “Hey, they are part of us.”

These days, people are complaining that mainland China is taking away a lot of jobs from this country. In the past, communist China was fighting against Americans in the Korean War and in the Vietnam War. All these are negative images for the Chinese Americans. That’s really unfortunate. I would say that we will try our very best to participate in our society, and try to have harmony with other ethnic groups. In our mind, we’ve got to improve ourselves, and we’ve got to control our destiny.

Thomas Tam: People will have a chance to raise some questions, but I want to bring out another point, and that is, race-related violence against Chinese communities. For example, school incidences against Chinese students, murders & assaults of Chinese food delivery men, and mobs fighting one another on the street. Do you want to comment on that, Frank?

Frank Shih: I don’t know how much of those issues are related to the demographics of the population, but I think it’s in the news because of the increased number of Chinese Americans here. I was particularly saddened by the Chinese food delivery incidents with these people having delivered food and then beaten up or killed. That’s a result of new immigrants who have to provide for themselves, taking risks in places where other people would not have taken. If you can afford not to be a delivery man in an area where it’s dangerous, you wouldn’t do it. Again, I don’t know if the economics is what drives that situation.

Doris Ling-Cohan: Part of the problem is that, as a community, we do not report incidents of crime. We have this view that as victims, okay, it happened, that’s it. We don’t want to get more involved. People who are witnesses don’t want to testify. As long as that continues, a lot of our community people will be targets of crime. I’ve seen it in the paper where some criminal gets interviewed, “Oh, we picked that person, because we know Chinese don’t complain, and they don’t file police reports.” As a community, we need to provide a support network to those people who are victims. For those of us who speak English, we can go as translators. The Asian American Bar Association had a project, at one point, where they accompanied victims of crime through the court process. Perhaps, that’s something that needs to be done. We cannot just sit back and say, “Well, it’s somebody else’s problem because that person should complain.”

In terms of school, a lot of parents, whose kids became targets of racial violence or some other violence would not complain. They didn’t complain to the police and they didn’t complain in school. That just adds to the problem. When the police tries to allocate resources, if they have no actual police complaints from a particular street corner or a particular neighborhood, there will be less resource, less police, and less patrol there because it’s not viewed as a problem. The livery cabs were once easy targets of crime until the Livery cab organization went to the government officials and said, “This is a real problem in our community and we need to address it. You need to have undercovers; you need to do this and you need to do that.

As a community, we need to learn how government works. This is one of the things can be addressed.

Frank Shih: As population increased, we have not proportionally increased our support of that population. As we have more immigrants, we should expect more resources to be given to them and to alert people of their rights.

Thomas Tam: You talked about the population increase and Doris talked about Chinese Americans as victims. Now we can also look at the other side. As the Chinese population increased, there is more Chinese getting into trouble with the law, and there are increasing numbers of Chinese who are incarcerated. I understand that in California, about 200 Asian prisoners staged a sit-in recently to protest being put into the same cells with the general prison population. In New York, there are more than 60 Chinese prisoners who complained that they have nothing to read in Chinese. They don’t understand English, and so they are languishing in the jails. Even though these are the people who have committed crimes and that they’re paying their debt to society, don’t they have some sort of rights? Do they have rights to command some resources that you talked about, for example?

Frank Shih: I’m sure the language and cultural issues deprived them of their rights. A lot of legal rights are tagged with social and political rights. The group that’s weak in political rights is going to be weak in social and legal rights even though the law seems to be the same. When you ask specifically, what are the rights of prisoners? I really don’t know, but I know that the language barrier itself has deprived a lot of Asian and Chinese Americans of their rights.

Thomas Tam: I’m just saying that: you commit a certain crime, you go to jail, you pay your debt, but if the incarceration process is very unsafe for some of the prisoners, can something be done to protect these prisoners? If they can be beaten up or worse than beaten up. Recently there are people who equate Asians with gays. When you look at it from a prisoner’s perspective, it can become a very frightening situation. I’m just saying that, as we talk about rights, can we talk about that as well?

Kai Yin Liu: First of all, for rights here in this country, you have to fight for it. If you don’t fight for it, no one will fight for you.

Thomas Tam: The prisoners in California staged a sit-in, but they got dispersed by water cannons.

Kai Yin Liu: Look at the law. It is the same for everybody. But who makes the law? For short, that’s the lawmaker, right? Who elected those lawmakers? Would they be accountable to us, especially to those who haven’t become U.S. citizens? Do you have money power? Do you have people power, or voting power? If you don’t, forget it. You will be really at their mercy. The best thing would be to organize ourselves and to get involved. Eventually, we will have more people, not just Chinese, but anyone who’s sympathetic to our cause and who can fight for our rights. Then, we will be better off.

Frank Shih: Again, your political rights are colored by so many things. Voicing your concerns is something we all have to do. The best way is to provide resources so we can educate people on how to do that and make sure that they are supported. But you know, there are a couple of interesting things. Chinese Americans need to understand themselves within this race relation in the United States. There’s racism here, and race relations are very complicated. Because of racism here, we are deprived of our legal rights. On a global sense, the rights we have are tied to our political rights. When there’s a problem with China, or when there’s a problem with immigrants, we’re going to suffer. Because we’re tied to that, they’re going to pick on us as well. Within that context, we need to understand that we don’t exist in a vacuum. Maybe we should form alliances with other groups that face the same issues.

Thomas Tam: You mentioned about the need to speak up. The Chinese local media has played an exemplary role in terms of educating the community about what is going on.

Doris Ling-Cohan: Can I answer that? I think my last election was won, in large part, because of the Chinese press. The community really exerted its power in voting, and placed me in one of six vacancies in all of Manhattan. The press educated the community about how important it was to vote, how to vote, when to vote, and where to vote. They played a very important role in educating many other situations, like domestic violence and the court system. The press did a spectacular job in explaining those things.

Thomas Tam: On your election, Chinatown probably had the largest turnout of votes for you, am I right about that?

Doris Ling-Cohan: Yes, it was pretty incredible. My election is because of the community.

Thomas Tam: Sometimes people still talk about how Asians and Chinese Americans, in particular, don’t vote. Is that going to change because of your election? How can we make sure that they will participate more?

Doris Ling-Cohan: Any time we have a candidate in the community, that encourages other people to get involved and to learn about the process. The press educate people about how to do it. So the number will increase. A lot of our problems come from not understanding how government works. When the press puts on a spotlight, people become aware of the problem. Then something happens: an increase in the number of people voting or an increase in reported cases of domestic violence, for example.

Thomas Tam: How can we get more Chinatown residents to participate in voting?

Kai Yin Liu: Basically, if you have a candidate that the general public can get interested in, then we will have more people coming out to vote. On the other hand, it really depends on the mass media, community agencies, and community leaders to take the lead and get all the people out. It would help if you could talk to the tenants associations, like Confucius Plaza, Two Bridges, etc. Don’t go to those people only when there is an election. You have to do your homework in advance; educate the people, and talk to them so that you are a part of them.

Thomas Tam: I’m going to ask three more questions, and then I’ll open up the discussion to the audience. One of the questions I want to ask is, the attack happened right across from Chinatown. Since 9/11, there has been quite a bit of anti-immigrant sentiment. How is that affecting Chinatown?

Kai Yin Liu: In short, business suffered greatly. Business in Chinatown is going down the hill. We don’t have as many tourists as before. People are afraid of getting into Chinatown, which is near World Trade Center.

Frank Shih: It created a larger anti-immigrant backlash, and a more ethnocentric America that impacted resources provide to Chinese Americans and our children. The rage that a lot of Americans felt not only went against people of Arab descent or South Asians who aren’t Arabs or Muslims, but it went against all immigrants. It has bred hatred and created a more right wing definition of America. That has hurt Chinatown in many ways that we don’t know about.

Thomas Tam: People are talking about security. There has been suggestion about the sharing of information between INS and the legal system. For example, in a Chinatown murder case recently, there has been a sharing of information between the immigration department with the law enforcement. What is your view on that, and how does that impact on a place like Chinatown?

Frank Shih: It’s a political hate crime. When you let people in the department of justice have access to immigration data, there’s racial profiling that can target a certain group of people. It also leads to an intimidation of that group because we have information about them, their relatives, t their children, and their parents. In a way, there will be fear and less reporting of crimes like domestic violence because anything you do may jeopardize the immigration information in that database. It’s tantamount to racial profiling institutionalized on a national basis.

Kai Yin Liu: I remember when people were fighting over bus services from New York City to Philadelphia. At that time, there was a rumor in the community that the INS would be coming. The next day, Monday, suddenly Chinatown became quiet. Usually, Mondays are very busy because for people who work in rural areas, it was the only day to get off. Because of immigration law enforcement agencies, they were afraid to come out.

Frank Shih: These are people who may be waiting for their green cards or waiting to be naturalized. They can still be intimidated even though they have legitimately followed all the processes. The case with James Yee, the Muslim chaplain, who was held in solitary confinement where the government finally dropped almost all the charges, has shown us that when that data is shown and shared, a lot of people can be hurt. When there’s a backlash against immigrants or a backlash against a political situation with China, who’s going to be hurt? It’s the Chinese Americans. I think it’s really dangerous. I would not have been as strong against that before 9/11, since then I find a lot of history is starting to repeat itself; things that happened to the Japanese in WWII, and things that happened in the McCarthy era. A lot of those things are starting to reappear. I think we need to study that and realize that it’s going on right now.

Thomas Tam: Let me ask you one more question, and then I’ll turn to the floor. Recently there is a proposal that permanent residents should have the right to vote. What do you say to that? And how would that impact Chinatown?

Frank Shih: I’d like to know who proposed that. There are so much anti-immigrant sentiments now. If that gets passed, I’d like to know why.

Doris Ling-Cohan: That’s not a new concept, though. It’s been around awhile. It’s basically a number of immigrant groups who are trying to restore it.

Frank Shih: What I meant was that, with all this conservative anti-immigrant sentiment now, I’d like to see…

Doris Ling-Cohan: I think the proposal is on a local basis, not national, I think the focus is on New York City.

Kai Yin Liu: Probably, they copied from the school board election, isn’t it?

Thomas Tam: That’s exactly the situation. As the judge said, it’s on a local basis. It’s for people who vote, for example, in a school district, and then extend the vote to include mayoral elections. It’s still on a local basis. I think that it’s proposed by some Hispanic groups, a Dominican legislator from New York.

The floor is open to discussion. Are there any questions?

Male Speaker: I have been in America for 40 years, and a citizen for over 30 years. I volunteered to work as a civilian in Africa, and served in the military in Europe. It doesn’t matter where you came from or what uniform you have on. What they see in you is that you are not American despite your uniform. They asked us where we are from, and we said “ America”. They said “Yeah, yeah, yeah, where are you really from?” That is what they asked. The same thing is true in America. I spent a couple of years in Mississippi. I met White Americans and Black Americans in Mississippi. Both of them have the same attitude. You look different. Especially among the Black Americans, the first thing they asked was “Are you American?” The second thing they asked was “Were you born here?” If you were not born here, then you are not going to be an American. So it doesn’t matter. You have this stigma with you, whether you like or it not. That is the reality that we have to live with.

I like Mr. Liu’s idea of looking for models in Jewish American. We have to emulate successful minority groups. I consider Jewish Americans minorities too. We have our own heritage and that we cannot discard. We will always belong to that area, whether we like it or not. It is a good heritage. You should protect it, you should hold onto it, and you should apply that heritage, just like the Jewish.

Thomas Tam: I want to thank you for your comment. It’s rare that we are able to get the three legal professionals here, and I would like to take the opportunity of asking them some questions.

Male Speaker: Part of the workshop talked about immigrant participation. I was interested in the speakers’ perspective on the second generation’s civic participation, and the kind of obstacles they encountered. I don’t know if there have been studies done on voting behavior of second generation Asian American, but I don’t think they’re going to be high either. I would be very interested to hear if the speakers had any insight on how the second generation participates in the civic activities and what can be done to encourage more.

Doris Ling-Cohan: I think you’re right, there has not been enough studies done. Perhaps academia can support studies like that, and find out for our community if, in fact, their rates are low and why they are so. Some people have told me, “I’m not going to register to vote because I’ll have to do jury service.” First, jury service is not so bad. They have changed the jury service to make it less burdensome on people. Number two, does it mean that you’re not going to pay taxes? The court system gets its list of potential jurors from the taxrolls. Are you not going to buy a house? The court system uses many different lists. If not to vote is your reason not to go on jury service, that means you’re basically going to have to stop living.

In terms of civic participation by the next generation, I think our parents were struggling just to make a living. To some extent, we can excuse that generation, although I would argue that ultimately, you’re doing this for your children. You come to America for your children; you want the best education for your children. All this civic participation ensures that your children will be fully accepted as Americans. Sir, you mentioned it before, that we will never be fully accepted. I think that’s wrong, I have hopes that some day we will fully be accepted, but it’s going to require struggle on behalf of this generation and the next generation. For this next generation, civic participation means going back to the community and use our skills to help our community. It’s not about just making a living for yourself. It’s not about just getting a BMW for yourself. It’s bringing those of us who are less fortunate along so that they can fully participate in the American dream as well.

Thomas Tam: To answer your question about the next generation, we have been trying to focus on students within the City University of New York. We raised the question in a colloquium held last year. Civic participation of Asian students is still an important issue, even though I was informed that there are Asian leaders of student governments in several campuses within the City University already.

Doris Ling-Cohan: That’s how John Liu got his start, I hear, at Binghamton.

Female Speaker: I have a question. All three of you mentioned that educating the community is probably one of the key ways of getting the Chinese community into civic participation. I was wondering what your approach is in terms of educating the community, in terms of overcoming those fear of government and lack of understanding, given their experience in their home countries. And also, whose responsibility is it? Is it the current governmental system, community groups, or the citizens themselves? How can they work together to bring additional civic participation in the community? I work in an organization, and I work with the city agencies, and we have a hard time getting literature in ethnic languages. It’s hard enough for us to disseminate that information, and have the resources to do that, but if we had things that were in ethnic languages, that would help us a lot. I just wanted your opinion on it.

Doris Ling-Cohan: Have you complained about the lack of brochures, and have you gone through the chain of command to complain?

Female Speaker: Yes, it’s a slow process because it’s not on the city agency’s priority list.

Doris Ling-Cohan: Have you gone to local elected officials to express your concern? There are many ways to get your point across. I think, as a community, we don’t fully understand how government works and that there are many avenues to express your complaint. Sometimes, it may mean that you have to express it 10 different ways, but eventually you will find the right person or you will apply the right pressure, perhaps working with other groups to get that point across.

Frank Shih: It is the government’s responsibility to do that. That’s the short answer. But when we talk about educating the community, we’re really talking about community organizing and bringing likeminded people together and forming a voice that’s powerful enough to do something. That’s part of education. That’s what Doris said about getting people to understand the need of organizing the community. And that’s hard work. It’s not easy. It’s like trying to run a political campaign.

Doris Ling-Cohan: Part of it is to encourage people in our community to work in public service so that they get the community perspective to where decisions are being made. I’ll give one example. When I worked in the Consumer Frauds Bureau, I was the only Asian. Somebody pretended that they had access to public housing and they advertised all over Chinatown: “public housing, send in $25.” The whole thing was a scam. When I brought it to my office, they said “It’s going to be hard to find people to complain.” So I said, “well, let me try.” With the help of the press and community organizations, when it was time to go to the grand jury, I had people lined up; I had one man who drove his truck to downtown Manhattan on Broadway. I said, “I’m sorry, it’s going to take longer, because I didn’t expect all these people to come testify at the grand jury. And he said, “Don’t worry, this is important. I’ll get a ticket, but I don’t’ care.” That is because you had somebody in the office who said it is important. When you get people in our community involved in public service, they can bring to those decision making tables expanded coverage for our community.

Frank Shih: And I commend you for bringing that issue up. Those are the practical things that make the difference.

Thomas Tam: Any other questions? If not, let me ask one last question of the panelists. A few months ago, the media reported that in New York State, there’s 300 Chinese Americans that passed the bar exam in one year alone. What kind of advice do you have for others that want to go into the legal field?

Frank Shih: Can I say something?

Doris Ling-Cohan: Sure, you’re the legal educator.

Frank Shih: But you’re the judge. I work for a law school that’s the only public interest law school in the country that trains lawyers for public interest law. There are too many lawyers in the United States. That’s like saying, there’s enough food in the world to feed everyone, which we all know. If America shares its food with everyone, no one would go hungry. But why do people go hungry? Because the distribution’s not right. I think 300 passing the bar is not a high number. We not only need more lawyers we need more lawyers that are doing something to help the community. That is a struggle for me as one who really wants to recruit a lot of Chinese Americans, Asian Americans, and African Americans and Hispanic Americans into the law school and into legal representation of their communities. Again, it takes a lot to do that.

Thomas Tam: Any other concluding remarks from the panelists?

Doris Ling-Cohan: I think it’s all been said.

Thomas Tam: I want to thank the panelists for joining us today, please give them a big hand.

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